In the latest policy letter. There is no longer the need for two witnesses in order for the abuse to be reported to secular authorities. The two witness rule only applies for sanctions that can be imposed by the congregation.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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31
Circuit Overseer's Idiotic Comment
by FedUpJW inat last night's clam the circuit overseer made this comment, "we elders sometimes have to act as judges in the congregation.
but we (the elders) are imperfect, and so cannot know everything about judicial matters.
that is why we (the elders) have the biblical rule that there must be at least two witnesses to wrongdoing.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
In Guinn v Church of Christ the Oklahoma Supreme Court used Paul v Watchtower to show the difference between active punishment of a former member and passive punishment of a former member. In Guinn the parishioner had removed herself from the association of the church and then sued the church and the elders for the invasion of privacy and infliction of emotional distress. In Guinn the court said:
In Paul a former member deliberately rejected the faith and beliefs of the Jehovah's Witness Church and was thus shunned. The Elders admonished the members of the church not to speak to Ms. Paul, and they obeyed. While Ms. Paul had withdrawn her membership and thus her consent to submit to the authority of the Jehovah's Witness Church, the act of discipline which it carried out against her was-unlike that in the instant case-a form of rejection and exclusion which did not call for her consent:“The members of the Church Paul decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice.”57The Elders' postresignation conduct in Paul was passive. Their disassociation from Ms. Paul through shunning was merely a reiteration of her prior rejection, not an active attempt to involve her in the religious practices of a church whose precepts she no longer followed. The church's *781 decision to turn away from her was protected under the First Amendment as a passive exercise of religious freedom, the legitimacy of which was not grounded in her prior acquiescence.For purposes of First Amendment protection, religiously-motivated disciplinary measures that merely exclude a person from communion are vastly different from those which are designed to control and involve. A church clearly is constitutionally free to exclude people without first obtaining their consent. But the First Amendment will not shield a church from civil liability for imposing its will, as manifested through a disciplinary scheme, upon an individual who has not consented to undergo ecclesiastical discipline. The court in Paul stated that “[c]ourts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members ) ...,” and that “[c]hurches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members,”58[emphasis added] but it provided no support for this view. Regardless of our disagreement with the court's refusal in Paul to distinguish between “former” and “present” church members when assessing a church's freedom to visit religious discipline, it is apparent that the stated rationale did not form the basis of the court's holding. We believe that the conclusion reached in Paul and our holding today are entirely consistent and easily reconcilable. -
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Double standard?
by dogon ini see serena williams is pregnant, not married and is she still a jehovahs witness?
if i have all this correct why is she not disfellowshipped?
more jw bull shit?
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Richard Oliver
Anyone can claim that they are a part of any religion or other kinds of group.
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The Governing Body WILL be sued in America collectively and individually in the near future!
by notsurewheretogo inso lloyd evans aka cedars says on his facebook page when he attended a reveal jw child abuse event.. .
interesting stuff but no details!.
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Richard Oliver
Well most of the people who have sued have not been very successful. So it will be interesting to see. -
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Church Property Ownership
by Richard Oliver ini have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church.
it looks like the most common of these is episcopal churches.
a lot of episcopal churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the anglican church of uganda.
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Richard Oliver
Sparrowdown:
I only used the Episcopal Church and the gay bishop as an example where a local church wants to leave the national church. The local church wanted to take the property with them when they left but the national church said that they couldn't take the property, that the property still belonged to the national church.
Blondie:
I don't understand what you point is. The rule that you point too is pretty much stating that no one can derive financial benefit from the non-profit and that the non-profit cannot engage in political activity unless they will lose their tax-exempt status.
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Church Property Ownership
by Richard Oliver ini have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church.
it looks like the most common of these is episcopal churches.
a lot of episcopal churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the anglican church of uganda.
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Richard Oliver
I have been reading a lot of cases that have to do with church property, especially when the church is affiliated with a larger national church. It looks like the most common of these is Episcopal Churches. A lot of Episcopal Churches wanted to disaffiliate with the national church when the national church ordained an openly gay bishop, the local churches wanted to join the Anglican Church of Uganda. Many of the dioceses of the Episcopal Church then sued to get the church property and funds back, where the diocese and the national church won. I wanted to get peoples opinion on this especially as a similarity to JWs and the claim that Watchtower is taking away congregation property.
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Australia - Brisbane Times: Authorities ignored Gold Coast photographer's child sex crimes
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/authorities-ignored-gold-coast-photographers-child-sex-crimes-20170413-gvkdx9.html.
april 13 2017 .
authorities ignored gold coast photographer's child sex crimes .
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Richard Oliver
It does show that you cannot just take the 1006 number that has been published by the ARC as being the number that was never reported to a secular authority that deals with this. It is true that it the number of perpetrators within the congregations since the records started in the 1960s, but it doesn't mean that they weren't reported to authorities. It was reported, even though it wasn't the organization that reported it, it was reported. That is where the ARC and the Branch has some contention in wording. Even in the second hearing Angus Stewart wanted proof that the Organization was the one who reported these events, but as the Branch reps pointed out parents or elders or others may have reported the matter and that didn't require the Branch to do the actual reporting but that it was reported to authorities.
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The West Australian: Jehovah Witness charged with historic child sex offences
by AndersonsInfo inhttps://thewest.com.au/news/wa/jehovah-witness-charged-with-historic-child-sex-offences-ng-b88453246z.
jehovah witness charged with historic child sex offences.
friday, 21 april 2017 3:11am.
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Richard Oliver
As reported in a previous post the man was not charged even though he confessed to child services for the province. The elders disfellowshiped him and that was his only punishment. The police did not charge him with a crime.
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Australia - Brisbane Times: Authorities ignored Gold Coast photographer's child sex crimes
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/authorities-ignored-gold-coast-photographers-child-sex-crimes-20170413-gvkdx9.html.
april 13 2017 .
authorities ignored gold coast photographer's child sex crimes .
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Richard Oliver
Infact the congregations disfellowshipping was the only sanctions that he suffered from those actions.
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115
Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?
by aboveusonlysky inwe're currently watching leah remini's series about scientology and the main thing she seems to focus on is the shunning policies of the scientology organization which let's face it are very similar to jw procedure.. i was wondering with all that's in the media recently about bullying could a petition be put together to get the goverment to consider making religiously mandated shunning illegal?
has such a thing been tried before?.
https://petition.parliament.uk/help says the following - .
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Richard Oliver
Also as a reminder most constitutions only bar the state from encroaching into a person's constitutionally protected rights, there is very little that stops a private individual or institution from doing that unless otherwise prescribed by law. That is why the KKK and other hate groups still operate in free countries like the USA. You can spout out hate speech all you want you can't induce a person to assault or kill someone but you can preach hate. Even in France one of the major candidates for President is accused as being a hate monger.